Motorized ball valve idea

Greybeard · Feb 15, 2019 #1

Hi folks.

I've had some problems recently with solenoid valves. My water is from a well, and pressure is variable... if my wife is taking a shower, pressure is horrible. Anyway, this causes me to have solenoids that are open for a long time. Cheap solenoids don't last long if they're on for extended periods... and I've burned up several. It's not the expense, it's that I just can't count on them.

So... I've been poking around ebay.
1/4" NPT Stainless steel Motorized ball valve, 2 wire, N/C, 9-24 VDC, $30.
Add a few miscellaneous items, I come up with this:

Since the ball valve is not consuming when it's open (or closed), it not generating heat, and much less apt to burn up. My initial version was a 3 wire ball valve, which needed a relay... problem with that design is I want it CLOSED if the power goes out. This way it's simple, and fails CLOSED.

Parts would cost me about $50.

The idea is to put this on the line running into a float valve, with the float switch being above the float valve. It's just an emergency off, to catch a failed float valve. Water raises above the float valve, trips the float switch, the motorized ball valve closes. Power fails, ball valve closes.

Seems like it'd be a simple, reliable device.

I would note that XP Aqua is making a very similar device now, but using a solenoid. I simply don't like to rely on N/C solenoids when it's going to be open for an extended period... say... refilling a mixing station tank of 100 gallons. That's how I've burned up 3 solenoids in under a year.

crusso1993 · Feb 15, 2019 #2

Greybeard said:
Hi folks.

I've had some problems recently with solenoid valves. My water is from a well, and pressure is variable... if my wife is taking a shower, pressure is horrible. Anyway, this causes me to have solenoids that are open for a long time. Cheap solenoids don't last long if they're on for extended periods... and I've burned up several. It's not the expense, it's that I just can't count on them.

So... I've been poking around ebay.
1/4" NPT Stainless steel Motorized ball valve, 2 wire, N/C, 9-24 VDC, $30.
Add a few miscellaneous items, I come up with this:

Since the ball valve is not consuming when it's open (or closed), it not generating heat, and much less apt to burn up. My initial version was a 3 wire ball valve, which needed a relay... problem with that design is I want it CLOSED if the power goes out. This way it's simple, and fails CLOSED.

Parts would cost me about $50.

The idea is to put this on the line running into a float valve, with the float switch being above the float valve. It's just an emergency off, to catch a failed float valve. Water raises above the float valve, trips the float switch, the motorized ball valve closes. Power fails, ball valve closes.

Seems like it'd be a simple, reliable device.

I would note that XP Aqua is making a very similar device now, but using a solenoid. I simply don't like to rely on N/C solenoids when it's going to be open for an extended period... say... refilling a mixing station tank of 100 gallons. That's how I've burned up 3 solenoids in under a year.

Looks like a sound solution to the solenoid problem. I spied the below motorized valve for you application below. It might be the same one you saw on eBay but I usually feel more comfortable ordering from Amazon. I know motorized pvc valves are made too but they are generally more expensive. Have you thought about using a valve from a sprinkler system?

https://www.amazon.com/Motorized-St...ocphy=9021493&hvtargid=pla-576282221472&psc=1

Sod Buster · Feb 15, 2019 #3

amazon

Sod Buster · Feb 15, 2019 #4

Sod Buster · Feb 15, 2019 #5

Greybeard · Feb 15, 2019 Thread Starter #6

Same valve I was looking at.

I'm an Amazon guy too... but you gotta watch their prices. Especially on electrical components. You can generally get stuff like this much cheaper if it's _not_ on Prime.

I just like the idea of a motorized ball valve much better than a solenoid for this sort of thing.. Should last way longer... and the longer open/close cycles won't mean a thing in this implementation.

Sod Buster · Feb 15, 2019 #7

Yes, solenoids get hot and fail. $24. Prime you pay the yearly fee, but my girl gets so much stuff off there w/ the free shipping, & now the on demand tv stuff, it's worth the $100/year for me.

Katrina71 · Feb 15, 2019 #8

Will you post step by step pics when you do your build please?

Greybeard · Feb 15, 2019 Thread Starter #9

Sod Buster said:
Yes, solenoids get hot and fail. $24. Prime you pay the yearly fee, but my girl gets so much stuff off there w/ the free shipping, & now the on demand tv stuff, it's worth the $100/year for me.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a techie, and live way out in the stix. Amazon Prime is a lifesaver. I've got a smiley box at the door several times a week. I _have_ to order stuff... ain't noplace around here to buy the kinds of stuff I need. Heck, I figure I get my money's worth on the Prime membership just for the streaming service. I watch more on Prime than I do on Netflix... and it's way cheaper.

Still, like I said, you gotta watch 'em on price. They'll stick it to you on small, low cost items. That $6 part from Amazon might be available elsewhere for 79¢.

Greybeard · Feb 15, 2019 Thread Starter #10

Katrina71 said:
Will you post step by step pics when you do your build please?

Don't know about step by step... it's not that difficult of a project, but yeah, when I build it, I'll post something.

MikeW9788 · Feb 15, 2019 #11

Greybeard said:
Hi folks.

I've had some problems recently with solenoid valves. My water is from a well, and pressure is variable... if my wife is taking a shower, pressure is horrible. Anyway, this causes me to have solenoids that are open for a long time. Cheap solenoids don't last long if they're on for extended periods... and I've burned up several. It's not the expense, it's that I just can't count on them.

So... I've been poking around ebay.
1/4" NPT Stainless steel Motorized ball valve, 2 wire, N/C, 9-24 VDC, $30.
Add a few miscellaneous items, I come up with this:

Since the ball valve is not consuming when it's open (or closed), it not generating heat, and much less apt to burn up. My initial version was a 3 wire ball valve, which needed a relay... problem with that design is I want it CLOSED if the power goes out. This way it's simple, and fails CLOSED.

Parts would cost me about $50.

The idea is to put this on the line running into a float valve, with the float switch being above the float valve. It's just an emergency off, to catch a failed float valve. Water raises above the float valve, trips the float switch, the motorized ball valve closes. Power fails, ball valve closes.

Seems like it'd be a simple, reliable device.

I would note that XP Aqua is making a very similar device now, but using a solenoid. I simply don't like to rely on N/C solenoids when it's going to be open for an extended period... say... refilling a mixing station tank of 100 gallons. That's how I've burned up 3 solenoids in under a year.

Hayward and goldline make high quality motorized ball valves for swimming pools that last a real long time. Jandy might make one as well if your looking for a durable option.

geekengineer · Feb 15, 2019 #12

That reminds me I actually made one of these things using my 3D printer. It used a servo motor and a printed gear/housing and an home depot ball valve. For the price for the ones on Amazon look like its probably easier just to buy the one you got.

Edit: Granted if you want a plastic valve then that doesn't help.

geekengineer · Feb 15, 2019 #13

I was just curious found this example. Now it be interesting if you could adapt the idea to use a plastic valve instead.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1052421

geekengineer · Feb 16, 2019 #14

As for the tricky part of making it close when power fails you probably need a small UPS. I found this simple 12V based UPS one you would need a 12V SLA battery for it. Only thing is if you could figure out how to find a signal on the board that tells you your on battery power so you can have that shut off the valve.

http://www.mini-box.com/picoUPS-100-12V-DC-micro-UPS-system-battery-backup-system?sc=8&category=981

Dr. Dendrostein · Feb 16, 2019

Greybeard said:
Hi folks.

I've had some problems recently with solenoid valves. My water is from a well, and pressure is variable... if my wife is taking a shower, pressure is horrible. Anyway, this causes me to have solenoids that are open for a long time. Cheap solenoids don't last long if they're on for extended periods... and I've burned up several. It's not the expense, it's that I just can't count on them.

So... I've been poking around ebay.
1/4" NPT Stainless steel Motorized ball valve, 2 wire, N/C, 9-24 VDC, $30.
Add a few miscellaneous items, I come up with this:

Since the ball valve is not consuming when it's open (or closed), it not generating heat, and much less apt to burn up. My initial version was a 3 wire ball valve, which needed a relay... problem with that design is I want it CLOSED if the power goes out. This way it's simple, and fails CLOSED.

Parts would cost me about $50.

The idea is to put this on the line running into a float valve, with the float switch being above the float valve. It's just an emergency off, to catch a failed float valve. Water raises above the float valve, trips the float switch, the motorized ball valve closes. Power fails, ball valve closes.

Seems like it'd be a simple, reliable device.

I would note that XP Aqua is making a very similar device now, but using a solenoid. I simply don't like to rely on N/C solenoids when it's going to be open for an extended period... say... refilling a mixing station tank of 100 gallons. That's how I've burned up 3 solenoids in under a year.

I was trying to find photos of a special valve I design similar to what what you are doing, except I'm using either air 25 PSI or water 25 PSI, but if the valve was inside the home then I would use air to control it with of course relays and whatever else is needed to control it. Made some noise, i had outside. , if you can picture from the photo, what I did is remove the black solenoid valve ,tap 3/8 npt and install a fitting so a 1/4" water drip tubing can connect to it. Remove the large spring inside valve. Ann I made some relays and I think timers to control the valve open or close as I please. For air I filled one of those round tanks that you Bill air with, to fill your tire could also use carbon dioxide tank.. Figuring out how to make the valve work with relays timers etc... was the challenging part.

Dr. Dendrostein · Feb 16, 2019

Sod Buster said:
Yes, solenoids get hot and fail. $24. Prime you pay the yearly fee, but my girl gets so much stuff off there w/ the free shipping, & now the on demand tv stuff, it's worth the $100/year for me.

If you plan to use solenoid valves, on the specs just make sure it says continuous duty. Then you can operate 24/7

Engloid · Feb 16, 2019 #17

You could look at the ASCO Red Hat series of valves. They're industrial grade equipment, and not cheap...but they will not burn out if left open for extended periods of time. They can be rebuilt easily also, so if you find a used one cheap, you can get a kit and rebuild it.

On the valves you posted, be careful....it says they are 304 and 316. They don't say what part is what, but 304 doesn't hold up well to salt water. That said, I have considered buying one of these before and seeing if the actuator would bolt onto a standard 316 ball valve body. It may be as simple as taking off a handle and bolting on the actuator...a 3 minute job.

I have had pretty good luck with the regular solenoid valves that have the 1/4" fittings for RO tubing. I burned one up when I tried using one from a refrigerator. They work fine, but burn up easily when left open long. The other problems I had with the solenoids made for these systems was when I accidentally put it in backwards. They leak when pressure is on the wrong side. I use them to handle ATO on my display and a 150g stock tank that I have. I store no RO water at all. My house runs about 90psi, btw.

Dr. Dendrostein · Feb 16, 2019 #18

Engloid said:
You could look at the ASCO Red Hat series of valves. They're industrial grade equipment, and not cheap...but they will not burn out if left open for extended periods of time. They can be rebuilt easily also, so if you find a used one cheap, you can get a kit and rebuild it.

On the valves you posted, be careful....it says they are 304 and 316. They don't say what part is what, but 304 doesn't hold up well to salt water. That said, I have considered buying one of these before and seeing if the actuator would bolt onto a standard 316 ball valve body. It may be as simple as taking off a handle and bolting on the actuator...a 3 minute job.

I have had pretty good luck with the regular solenoid valves that have the 1/4" fittings for RO tubing. I burned one up when I tried using one from a refrigerator. They work fine, but burn up easily when left open long. The other problems I had with the solenoids made for these systems was when I accidentally put it in backwards. They leak when pressure is on the wrong side. I use them to handle ATO on my display and a 150g stock tank that I have. I store no RO water at all. My house runs about 90psi, btw.

Also if it's possible I would pre filter before any solenoid valve

Dr. Dendrostein · Feb 16, 2019 #19

Greybeard said:
Hi folks.

I've had some problems recently with solenoid valves. My water is from a well, and pressure is variable... if my wife is taking a shower, pressure is horrible. Anyway, this causes me to have solenoids that are open for a long time. Cheap solenoids don't last long if they're on for extended periods... and I've burned up several. It's not the expense, it's that I just can't count on them.

So... I've been poking around ebay.
1/4" NPT Stainless steel Motorized ball valve, 2 wire, N/C, 9-24 VDC, $30.
Add a few miscellaneous items, I come up with this:

Since the ball valve is not consuming when it's open (or closed), it not generating heat, and much less apt to burn up. My initial version was a 3 wire ball valve, which needed a relay... problem with that design is I want it CLOSED if the power goes out. This way it's simple, and fails CLOSED.

Parts would cost me about $50.

The idea is to put this on the line running into a float valve, with the float switch being above the float valve. It's just an emergency off, to catch a failed float valve. Water raises above the float valve, trips the float switch, the motorized ball valve closes. Power fails, ball valve closes.

Seems like it'd be a simple, reliable device.

I would note that XP Aqua is making a very similar device now, but using a solenoid. I simply don't like to rely on N/C solenoids when it's going to be open for an extended period... say... refilling a mixing station tank of 100 gallons. That's how I've burned up 3 solenoids in under a year.

Just found these, retrofit an existing manual ball valve. There's more of them out there this is just some

scriptmonkey · Feb 16, 2019 #20

I reached out to them before, the valve body and stem are both SS304, I would be careful around salt.

Motorized ball valve idea

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